Interview by Jen, Rivers, and Jean, December 2025
Trigger warning! This interview references programming and satanic ritual abuse, including suicide programming (although none of it in graphic terms), and mentions Christian content (church, faith).
Welcome to the second part of svali’s Trailblazer interview, entitled “Thoughts on Healing.” It’s a more in depth look at her inner world and healing, including suggestions for survivors who are working on their own healing and perhaps trying to escape from a cult.
Do you have any words for other survivors who might be wanting to escape a cult, or who are in the process of escaping? Or for therapists helping them do so?
- Don’t talk about your plans.
Make them internally and secretly until you can be in a safe environment. - It can be difficult to leave other people behind; allow yourself to grieve these losses if you have to do this.
For me, leaving meant leaving family, friends, everyone at the time I was closest to, because they were all programmed and cult active (I realize this may not be true for everyone). - Perseverance was so important.
I wanted to give up so many times but realized that I couldn’t go back. I made my decision to leave the Order outside of therapy – my cult host made the decision – when my primary programmer died. (My cult host was the part of me who presented most of the time for most of my life, and who was active in the cult.) On his deathbed, my primary programmer whispered one word into my ear: “leave.” I lied and told the others he said “love.”
Lying to the cult and programmers is important before getting out, so they do not know that you are planning on leaving. You can come up with strategies internally to trick the programmers into thinking that your system is still compliant, such as parts hiding what they really feel during system checks, fooling the brain scans (it can be done), etc.
The cult loyal parts really need to be on board with the decision to leave, or at least they did for me. I did not have a strong “host” that functioned outside of the cult setting, and so I needed this cooperation.
When you encounter barriers (e.g. inner parts too terrified to communicate, amnesia due to parts being shut away from the rest of the system, or parts that are suicidal) how do you work with your system to move through them?
I had numerous system communicators whose original job was to report on system status and emotional states, etc., to outside programmers. After talking with me they decided to change their roles and agreed to help with healing.
When parts are too terrified to communicate, I might ask other parts near them (such as the system communicators) to communicate for them and to them, if possible. This helped, especially with very young babies and terrified parts who would not trust the adults inside (they were programmed not to talk to them) but would talk to the communicators and let them relay messages to the internal healing team.
When parts were shut away from the rest of the system, I would spend time trying to discover how they were shut away – what traumas, seals, or other things were done to prevent their coming out, what my system believed would happen if these parts came out, etc.
When my suicide programming was running full bore (and it did, many times), I asked my friends to help me by hiding kitchen knives, and by hiding any medications in the house that could be toxic, until I worked through the feelings and traumas and reasons for it running. This usually took a couple of days. I also talked about these feelings with my friends, which helped. I talked myself through it at times, telling myself, “This despair will lift in a few days; it won’t always feel so intense.” I went inpatient several times earlier in my healing journey, as well, when I felt that I might act on the suicidal feelings.
Do you think it is possible for someone to know if they have cleared all of their programming, particularly hidden and dormant programming, and are completely “healed”? Do you consider yourself healed in this way?
Yes, I do believe it’s possible to know. Especially if the core and original core splits have healed and resolved their traumas, and the top controllers inside have healed. I had 13 systems, with 13 top controllers who were called “Immortals” and believed their job was to be system overseers or shepherds. It was very difficult for these parts to realize they had been programmed and deceived.
I do consider myself to be healing in this way. My core and the first split have shared their original traumas, spiritual and physical abuse, and terrors, and have been nurtured and brought together to meet each other. They understand that they were the same baby, and that baby underwent both their experiences. Core healing really helps.
What does your inner landscape look like now compared to when you first started your healing journey?
I was polyfragmented in the past (I started out with close to 5,000 parts and fragments inside). But, over time, parts coalesced together and now there are many fewer inside. I call it “coalescing inside” when parts first join consciousness (mine often do this by holding hands inside), share memories, and then present together (be co-conscious) in both the inner and outside worlds.
My inner landscape is much more open now (parts can openly walk between systems) and much more pleasant. “Outer darkness”, a place of terror, pain, and punishment is now “Outer feelings,” where parts are loved and can share the feelings that were shoved into this system. “Hell” is no longer that, but a playground with nice things. I now have streams, woods, and meadows instead of hellacious internal scenes. The programming hospital that was part of my inner landscape has been taken down, and it is now a lovely meadow.
BY OURSELVES | ABOUT OURSELVES | FOR OURSELVES | FOR EACH OTHER | 